Debugging with USB....

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In_Control001
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Debugging with USB....

Postby In_Control001 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:58 pm

Hi guys,

Is there any documentation to make a custom JTAG debugger on board of the print? So u can just plug in the USB to flash an debug the device...



Kind regards,
Jo
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lilltroll
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Postby lilltroll » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:20 pm

Do you want to "paste" an XTAG2 on your custom made board? (Or do you want a custom JTAG thing?)

You can find the schematics and Gerbers files here for the XTAG2 here
https://www.xmos.com/products/developme ... ug-adapter

You will need to ask XMOS for the USB bootloader code, and place it in the OTP memory.
Probably not the most confused programmer anymore on the XCORE forum.
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In_Control001
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Postby In_Control001 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:28 pm

hey Mikael, I hope they provide their USB bootloader :P :D

But maybe thats to much for free....
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XMatt
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Postby XMatt » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:47 pm

In_Control001 wrote:hey Mikael, I hope they provide their USB bootloader :P :D

But maybe thats to much for free....
We are currently working on how best to address this internally as there have been several requests such as this. We hope to be able to address this issue as soon as we can.
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lilltroll
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Postby lilltroll » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:44 pm

I hope you find a solution to this. How to find a buisness model that doesn't limit the development?

Time is money. A student that doesn't have any money but spent time to learn you tool - whithout using your support is a win for XMOS. Some day he might run a real project. If you try and charge him - he will never take the time and learn the tool.

Research, education and prestudies. If we shall be able to "build prototypes within days or weeks instead of months" - we need to acess premade software within hours from XMOS.
If you have to pay first and check out the tool thereafter - most project leader will go for TI, ARM or something they have a working history with.

It's nice if you can delay the cost until commercial production for the development project.
A license cost per sold chip used in production- nice for us customers - if XMOS can collect the money.
Could XMOS sell more expensive chips with pre-burned OTPs?
USB-Boot, Ethernet Boot and so on.
We cannot read the OTP anyway !?


I have been apart of several startups myself - so a note to us users here - if XMOS doesn't break even - there will not be any chips to buy at all. There must be a balance between the profit XMOS does and the profit we might do.
Probably not the most confused programmer anymore on the XCORE forum.
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XMatt
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Postby XMatt » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:33 pm

lilltroll wrote:I hope you find a solution to this. How to find a buisness model that doesn't limit the development?

Time is money. A student that doesn't have any money but spent time to learn you tool - whithout using your support is a win for XMOS. Some day he might run a real project. If you try and charge him - he will never take the time and learn the tool.

Research, education and prestudies. If we shall be able to "build prototypes within days or weeks instead of months" - we need to acess premade software within hours from XMOS.
If you have to pay first and check out the tool thereafter - most project leader will go for TI, ARM or something they have a working history with.

It's nice if you can delay the cost until commercial production for the development project.
A license cost per sold chip used in production- nice for us customers - if XMOS can collect the money.
Could XMOS sell more expensive chips with pre-burned OTPs?
USB-Boot, Ethernet Boot and so on.
We cannot read the OTP anyway !?


I have been apart of several startups myself - so a note to us users here - if XMOS doesn't break even - there will not be any chips to buy at all. There must be a balance between the profit XMOS does and the profit we might do.
This is a great post :)

The main problem we are trying to solve is making sure that there is a structured framework for compliance with the development tools, there is no way we can test every board available when we release new tools. There has to be a disconnect here and an agreed interface, this is what we are working on developing.

There should be no problem releasing the source, it is a great example for a USB device and it is so simple it really demonstrates how easily you can put together a USB product with an XMOS part.

Basically watch this space, thats all I can say for now.
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In_Control001
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Postby In_Control001 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:15 am

So for now the only tool to debug an Xmos is with the Xtag2 ?

I hope soon u bring those pre-burned OTPs on the market...
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leon_heller
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Postby leon_heller » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:29 pm

You will need a PHY chip, though, unless there is a full-speed option. That will need drivers, of course, but ordinary HC buffers should do.
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larry
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Postby larry » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:05 pm

May I suggest some alternatives:

a) Debug via external XTAG2 adapter, field upgrade via application interface like RS232 (USB-to-RS232 adapter) or SD card. This option doesn't require an additional L1 on the board.

b) Debug and field upgrade via on-board L1 (plus USB phy), but boot from flash rather than OTP. Chances are that L1+flash is actually cheaper than L1+programming in smaller quantities.

c) Debug and field upgrade via on-board L1 (plus USB phy), OTP program L1 via extra JTAG connector on-board.

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